Making Their Mark

Acclaimed multi-platinum producer/engineer Sylvia Massy has spent years behind the glass in the world of music production and built her discography with such legendary acts as Tool, Johnny Cash, Prince, System of a Down, Tom Petty, the Red Hot Chili Peppers and more. A stint working at L.A.’s Larrabee Sound brought her into the orbit of super-producer Rick Rubin, which led to dozens of other high-profile opportunities, including a residency at Sound City in the 1990s.

Sylvia Massy

MPG Recording Engineer of the Year Manon Grandjean started her career at London’s Livingston Studios, and after stints at The Church, The Chapel and RAK Studios, she took up her current position as engineer with celebrated Grammy award-winning writer/producer Fraser T Smith, working on projects including Kano’s Made in the Manor, Gavin James’ Bitter Pill and Stormzy’s Gang Signs and Prayer.

Manon Grandjean

Producer and songwriter Estelle Rubio is a self-confessed geek girl and ‘Jacqueline of all trades’ whose credits include remixes for Looper, Saifam, ChxllSeeker and the Atlantic Jaxx label. Always keen to encourage women in the industry, she has also lectured at BIMM London, demonstrated audio products for Apple, and been a guest speaker for Miami Music Week, BPM, Sound on Sound, the BBC and the B-Side Project.

Estelle Rubio

What first inspired you to get into the recording business?

Sylvia Massy: I was a big fan of reggae music, and especially enjoyed dub reggae albums by Sly & Robbie, Black Uhuru and Burning Spear. I went in the studio with my own reggae band during college and discovered that "dub" was actually created by engineers in the studio. In essence, they were using the studio as their instrument. This is when I knew I wanted to learn how to record music.

Manon Grandjean: Weirdly, I discovered the art of recording and mixing fairly late. I knew I wanted to work in music as I was very musical as a child and teenager, being classically trained on guitar and harp, but I didn't have a clear idea of what engineering was. I was also into science so I studied physics, because I knew that would be a good foundation to become an engineer. While at University, I did an internship in a studio in the South of France and that's when I discovered what an engineer really does, and from then on I knew this is what I wanted to do.

Estelle Rubio: I started writing songs at 15. For my birthday I wanted a Korg M1, but my parents got me a retro Korg Polysix and then enrolled me on a holiday course: I was fascinated with the process and ultimately went on to assist (hang around!) the studio of an engineer in Amsterdam. I would use the downtime to work on songs and play on equipment such as one of the first Roland samplers! I was intrigued by the creation of spaces, like a 4th dimension with FX you could sing in a virtual cathedral, feedback loop a guitar or sample yourself to sound like Mickey Mouse!

When you started out, were there any other women in the industry that you could look to as role models?

Estelle Rubio: Björk was always inspiring for me: very hands-on in the studio and generally geeky! Also Imogen Heap, she self produced a lot of her music …I featured on a BBC show with her about music and tech. She is at the forefront of Music Tech creating her MIDI gloves and collective concept ‘Sparks’ album. Also Lisa Loud gave me one of my first opportunities.

__Sylvia Mass__y: I had very strong role models starting out. Maureen Droney, Leslie Ann Jones, Susan Rogers to name a few.

Manon Grandjean: When I started out, it was the very beginning of social media so info about engineers was fairly restricted - especially women engineers as they were so rare, unless looking up credits and doing a lot of digging…there wasn't that community of engineers that you could instantly talk to or follow their work, like it is so easy to do now. At the time, for me, it was more accessible to learn about female artists that produce themselves and have a technical knowledge like Imogen Heap or Björk…

Did you face particular challenges working in such a male-orientated environment?

Manon Grandjean: I was very fortunate not to have bad experiences, and work with great open minded people so I've never seen my gender being an issue, but I must admit it can be quite intimidating, especially when you start out.

Estelle Rubio: If anything I was a bit of a novelty! Even at University, out of 50 students there were 3 women. Because I was also a singer/songwriter when I was still learning people would often say 'why don't you book in a studio with a proper producer?’ but I was determined to break through preconceived ideas. Dance music is still predominately male, if you look at the major line ups they are 90% male. Why is that? Do men have better networks, more confidence, or are they more willing to work behind the scenes? Now the challenge is finding answers to these questions.

Sylvia Massy: No, it is hard for anyone to get a foothold in the industry, whether man or woman. Takes a lot of dedication and concentration. Many many long days, and years of work. The fact that there are more men than women did not make a difference in my case.

Do you think it’s very different for a woman entering the industry now?

Manon Grandjean: I think it is different now, because people are less and less surprised to see women in the studio engineering or producing so it is going forward for sure. It is still a minority in the industry but there is a strong network between women artists, engineers, producers etc… it feels like there are a bit more opportunities and support.

Estelle Rubio: There are different routes for women now. University courses specifically for Music Production for example. There are still challenges though, now we have the superstar DJs/Producers it will be interesting to see if more women are driven to achieve in the role…is it a profile thing? There are some breakout talents like Black Madonna, Eva Shaw and Nicole Madauber. I definitely think women require role models to pave the way and see it is a viable career - and potentially a lucrative one - as Producers command huge remix fees/release songs AND play out as DJs.

What qualities make a good recording engineer?

Estelle Rubio: Patience, lots of breaks, solid equipment to rely on, and also comparing & A/B'ing mixes. Hard question as it's very subjective. Some add an Apple loop and make a hit record, others program each beat and strive for originality. As an engineer, clean recordings and having speakers that show up flaws i.e. pops, phasing, de-essing. Also, a small amount of physics: play with oscillators and make your own sounds. There are so many little jobs within the role, you need to focus on the minutiae but keep the bigger mix (musicality/arranging) in focus…like a DAW screen zooming in and out!

Sylvia Massy: Don't get in the way of the music. I suppose that is the most important goal of a good engineer. However, I consider myself to be more than just an engineer. When I think of the role of recording engineer, I think of someone who is trying to not fk it up. Someone who is trying to make a pristine representation of the subject being recorded. Kind of a documentary. I am more creative than that. I will not only do a quality recording, but on occasion I will TRY to fk it up. I want to paint with sound, blend frequencies, make the listener react with emotion. That is more than just engineering. It is being an "engineer-producer". If you are looking to be a good engineer, then just don't f**k up.

Manon Grandjean: I think being attentive is important, understanding what the artist and the producer want, knowing when to voice your opinions, knowing your equipment, keeping calm under pressure, the list goes on.. It is a mix of technical, artistical and psychological work.

There’s been a lot in the news recently concerning equality of pay and how women are treated in the workplace - how do you feel the recording industry is doing in this respect?

Sylvia Massy: Ghah, poor women. I am tough and aggressive in the studio. I don't see mis-treatment of women, but if I wanted to be a victim, I suppose I would have a lot to cry about. I don't know anything about pay disparity. I get paid what I ask for, or I don't do the work.

Manon Grandjean: I am not sure how this is applicable in the freelance world, most producers and engineers are freelance so they can determine how much they get paid within the project's budget, or if you are part of a studio staff you would agree to a rate which would vary on experience. I am probably blissfully unaware but I didn't feel like it was as pronounced in the freelance world, but perhaps it is different in other areas of the music industry ….or maybe I was just lucky.

Estelle Rubio: Generally there is parity of pay in this industry. What is harder to obtain is the opportunities, in the early stages. So much is about networking, being referred or recommended. As far as treatment is concerned I have never experienced any rogue behaviour, except offers of work early in my career which I turned down because they were ultimately sexist roles where I’d have had little control creatively. Sometimes it’s harder to be taken seriously.

What one piece of advice would you have for women who were considering a career in recording?

Sylvia Massy: Go for it. Make sure you are confident and have something unique to offer. Learn music programming, do string arrangements. Have a skill that will give you a leg-up on the competition. Competition being all engineers out there, both men and women.

Manon Grandjean: I would say 100% go for it, if it is what you are passionate about. Be prepared for long hours and hard work but it is the nature of the business, I would say that to a man as well. My advice is keep going, don't let anything put you down especially not your gender - if you persevere, your efforts will pay off one way or another.

Estelle Rubio: The same advice I would give to a man…be prepared to work for free (or very little!) and spend countless hours in a dark room. You will have to make many pitches for TV/Ad work for example and often not get the job, but you are honing your skills. Also, own your ‘Modes of Production’. It is easier now to invest in your own equipment, the bedroom producer reigns. There is a certain Vampiric quality to this line of work, I’m always working on that studio tan!